I've posted once before on the same topic. http://community.babycenter.com/post/a60867178/is_a_healthy_relationship_even_possible_anymore
However, I just read Danu's Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers page after doing some lurking on here, and I find myself relating to almost every single thing written on it. I need some validation here, people. Is this what I am dealing with? How do I BH or ELC after being trained to feel horribly guilty for just questioning my mother's cooking? Warning: this is a novel.
BG: Divorce at 5 yo. Lived primarily with mother, because obviously. Brainwashed into thinking father is a terrible man, also because obviously. I have very few positive memories of my mother. My most vivid memories are the ones that have left me scarred. I.e. watching my older brother back her into a corner because she had become so enraged (narcissistic rage?) that her behavior around us younger kids was becoming dangerous and uncontrollable. Other memories include, but are in no way limited to: being guilt-tripped into staying at home with her instead of spending court-ordered time with my father; being bribed into staying home with her instead of going on a family trip with KITTENS (a story which she will later relay as her "getting the cats because the kids wanted them"); sleeping past schooltime and telling me to "just walk there"; slamming the door on me (5 y.o.) in the middle of the night because I was crying for my father and she had grown frustrated; becoming defensive anytime she is challenged; looking for constant validation or approval and denying anything otherwise; etc etc.
The current situation is this, and I have literally JUST exited the fog here: I moved out of state Aug 2014, entered a relationship Nov 2014, and found out I was pregnant April 2015. Mother came to visit where I lived with SO July 2015, during which there was an in-laws (not married but I will refer to them as such) incident. They arrived at 11 pm banging and screaming on my (not his, my name) apartment door. Didn't leave for an hour then stole SO's car. SO has subsequently CO'd. However, mother took this as an opportunity to "take me under her wing" and convince me in my emotional, scared, and hormonal state that there was no way I could stay out of state and raise the baby with SO. I needed to be with her so she could help me. I needed to be with family. I didn't need to worry about finances, so hey - "Move in with me! I will take care of everything and it will be so great." So we did. SO fought me on it, again because obviously. I had a seasonal job so once it ended in Aug 2015, I moved in with my mom. Drove our 2 Sedans across 4 states (yep, I left about 75% of my belongings). SO stayed until he could get the transfer of his well-paying job, a transfer which he was promised by his company. Well, transfer didn't happen in a timely enough manner and mother took it upon herself to call him up and tell him that I desparately needed him here and he was not doing his job as a father by not being around - mind you, LO was still unborn. So SO came without a job, truly under the impression that he was absolutely needed and that my mother was supportive of us living with her. SO and I always considered it temporary - she was the one who wanted it forever and was (and is) advocating for that.
FF to now. SO got a job in October, LO was born in November, SO was approved for a home loan in February. I have been consistently advocating for a quick move to a rental as soon as SO made enough to afford it. He consistently advocated for saving funds until he was more comfortable leaving and supporting LO. Hindsight is 20/20. There's many, many things that should have been done differently. I won't list them because if you've bothered to read this far, you likely have a running list already. Number 1 on the list is that we shouldn't have moved in with her. Only positive thing that I can see has come from this situation is that I am now more clear headed regarding my mother's mental state.
Mother has started charging us $900 rent (note that she makes 2k a week and has a monthly rental payment of $850). She says that we have put her into 15k worth of debt. Of course when we first moved here, I wouldn't hesitate to let her insist on paying for things for me because she's my mother and she's doing it out of the goodness of her heart...right? Wrong. However, this has in no way amounted to 15k. Groceries and some medical bills until I got Medicaid. And we have started a monthly payment toward the CC she used. While on the topic, I checked my credit score the other day and it has dropped 70 points in the last few months because of 2 CC's she has made me an authorized user on - one of which I knew nothing about (she added my name just in case I ever needed to use it). Together, they have 8k of debt on them. I've seen her "budget" and it includes tens of thousands in debt. She comes home on a weekly basis with at least 1 new must-have, expensive item (the last was a tablet, before that was a briefcase). Do whatever you want with your money - she's an adult and I in no way should control how she uses her money. But don't charge my family $900 in rent when we are in this situation because of you, and then come home with new electronics and accessories. And don't add my name to a card without my permission that you are going to put thousands worth of debt on. (She feels the need to validate the purchase to me when she comes home, so clearly she knows it might be a bit off-putting to say the least.) Oh, and also don't charge "just" SO. We are a package deal and I know you are not-so-secretly trying to separate us. You've made that painfully obvious in your attempts to turn me against him and question our relationship, as well as drive him out.
Anyway. SO and I are in the process of looking at and bidding on homes. I know many of you will say to just rent, and believe me, that was my mantra until he got approved. I was intensely looking for a rental that suited us for months. The fact is, I was unable to find anything that we could afford in a safe area. Of course I wish we had moved out long ago, and I am still waiting for that perfect rental to pop up - but meanwhile, we are able to afford a mortgage in a much better area (and now that we have the funds for a down payment thanks to our tax refunds). If we've had to go through all this, we at the very least owe it to ourselves to find a new home that we can thrive and make happy memories in. And before you ask, yes, we have considered everything regarding the buying process and monthly payments and home ownership in general. Advice is welcome on that topic, however lectures are not. We've been living for the past 6 months in a cat-shit-infested, 700 square foot, middle of nowhere, dirty house. We are ready for a place we will be happy living in.
Mother demands that we don't buy a house but rather rent because it's not fair to her that we make a down payment and own a home, when she (feels like she) is footing the bill for everything (I can not stress enough how untrue this is, as well as how much she fights for us to live with her). She wants to buy a home but she simply can't because all these years, she's been renting in order to avoid a down payment and "give the kids a nice place to live." Let's analyze this: she did not support us until I was 16 years old. After the divorce until 16, we lived either with her parents or her boyfriends. At 16, she moved us out of my high school zone into literally the ghetto downtown. ??????? And then I moved out at 18, totally independent, and my older brother stayed until med school a couple years later.
So she springs it on us that she's suddenly considering buying a home because her landlord wants to move back in anyway. She says she can only afford a very inexpensive house because now she needs to pay it off in 15 years so that it's paid by the time she retires. Great idea. So please, please someone tell me why she dragged LO and I out to the middle of nowhere to go look with her at a $288,000 house? She had seen it before and absolutely loved it. It's perfect: near the lake, BIG ENOUGH FOR ALL THE KIDS, clean enough for LO to crawl around, a great deal in a great area, swim and tennis, ALL THE THINGS. She wanted me to see it for my approval and so that I could see the area that we would live in. Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention that she has been vehemently denying that we will absolutely NOT be moving anywhere with her. She qualified for the home loan and is in the process of negotiating for this house. She made LO and I go with her to look at a beautiful home in a beautiful neighborhood, when she's telling us that she needs $900 rent to get by? Meanwhile, we are driving all around the city desparately searching for and trying to snatch up a DECENT place to live? I was so hurt. This was just today and I have finally passed the point of anger - I am absolutely hurt and sad and I don't even know how to describe it. I am just realizing the kind of person I am dealing with. I thought all these years that she had so much love for us kids that it simply overwhelmed her and drove her behavior. Now I have to ask myself if this woman is even sane or if there ever has been any genuine love here, or if everything is an attempt to "fill her narcissistic supply tank".
I feel so guilty. I'm sure there are some members on here who can relate to this guilt and have success stories as to how to work through it. I feel so sad for this woman. I desparately want a relationship between her and my daughter, but it is ONLY for my mother's sake. And that is wrong, right? I would never allow LO to be alone around her and it would be ELC. Will this plan work in the long run? I cannot bear the thought of completely cutting her off. But I truly feel like I am going to have been traumatized by this whole experience and will need serious therapy to work through it all.
I know, I know. BH and CO. But isn't there a way to ease my guilt and anxirty by enforcing a limited, boundary-full relationship with rules and regulations? Also, on a side note, do I try and discourage her from buying this home and making a HUGE mistake, or do I continue to appease her and agree with everything in order to maintain peace?
Am I the Daughter of a Narcissistic Mother, and will my own daughter be asking herself the same thing in 20 years?
However, I just read Danu's Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers page after doing some lurking on here, and I find myself relating to almost every single thing written on it. I need some validation here, people. Is this what I am dealing with? How do I BH or ELC after being trained to feel horribly guilty for just questioning my mother's cooking? Warning: this is a novel.
BG: Divorce at 5 yo. Lived primarily with mother, because obviously. Brainwashed into thinking father is a terrible man, also because obviously. I have very few positive memories of my mother. My most vivid memories are the ones that have left me scarred. I.e. watching my older brother back her into a corner because she had become so enraged (narcissistic rage?) that her behavior around us younger kids was becoming dangerous and uncontrollable. Other memories include, but are in no way limited to: being guilt-tripped into staying at home with her instead of spending court-ordered time with my father; being bribed into staying home with her instead of going on a family trip with KITTENS (a story which she will later relay as her "getting the cats because the kids wanted them"); sleeping past schooltime and telling me to "just walk there"; slamming the door on me (5 y.o.) in the middle of the night because I was crying for my father and she had grown frustrated; becoming defensive anytime she is challenged; looking for constant validation or approval and denying anything otherwise; etc etc.
The current situation is this, and I have literally JUST exited the fog here: I moved out of state Aug 2014, entered a relationship Nov 2014, and found out I was pregnant April 2015. Mother came to visit where I lived with SO July 2015, during which there was an in-laws (not married but I will refer to them as such) incident. They arrived at 11 pm banging and screaming on my (not his, my name) apartment door. Didn't leave for an hour then stole SO's car. SO has subsequently CO'd. However, mother took this as an opportunity to "take me under her wing" and convince me in my emotional, scared, and hormonal state that there was no way I could stay out of state and raise the baby with SO. I needed to be with her so she could help me. I needed to be with family. I didn't need to worry about finances, so hey - "Move in with me! I will take care of everything and it will be so great." So we did. SO fought me on it, again because obviously. I had a seasonal job so once it ended in Aug 2015, I moved in with my mom. Drove our 2 Sedans across 4 states (yep, I left about 75% of my belongings). SO stayed until he could get the transfer of his well-paying job, a transfer which he was promised by his company. Well, transfer didn't happen in a timely enough manner and mother took it upon herself to call him up and tell him that I desparately needed him here and he was not doing his job as a father by not being around - mind you, LO was still unborn. So SO came without a job, truly under the impression that he was absolutely needed and that my mother was supportive of us living with her. SO and I always considered it temporary - she was the one who wanted it forever and was (and is) advocating for that.
FF to now. SO got a job in October, LO was born in November, SO was approved for a home loan in February. I have been consistently advocating for a quick move to a rental as soon as SO made enough to afford it. He consistently advocated for saving funds until he was more comfortable leaving and supporting LO. Hindsight is 20/20. There's many, many things that should have been done differently. I won't list them because if you've bothered to read this far, you likely have a running list already. Number 1 on the list is that we shouldn't have moved in with her. Only positive thing that I can see has come from this situation is that I am now more clear headed regarding my mother's mental state.
Mother has started charging us $900 rent (note that she makes 2k a week and has a monthly rental payment of $850). She says that we have put her into 15k worth of debt. Of course when we first moved here, I wouldn't hesitate to let her insist on paying for things for me because she's my mother and she's doing it out of the goodness of her heart...right? Wrong. However, this has in no way amounted to 15k. Groceries and some medical bills until I got Medicaid. And we have started a monthly payment toward the CC she used. While on the topic, I checked my credit score the other day and it has dropped 70 points in the last few months because of 2 CC's she has made me an authorized user on - one of which I knew nothing about (she added my name just in case I ever needed to use it). Together, they have 8k of debt on them. I've seen her "budget" and it includes tens of thousands in debt. She comes home on a weekly basis with at least 1 new must-have, expensive item (the last was a tablet, before that was a briefcase). Do whatever you want with your money - she's an adult and I in no way should control how she uses her money. But don't charge my family $900 in rent when we are in this situation because of you, and then come home with new electronics and accessories. And don't add my name to a card without my permission that you are going to put thousands worth of debt on. (She feels the need to validate the purchase to me when she comes home, so clearly she knows it might be a bit off-putting to say the least.) Oh, and also don't charge "just" SO. We are a package deal and I know you are not-so-secretly trying to separate us. You've made that painfully obvious in your attempts to turn me against him and question our relationship, as well as drive him out.
Anyway. SO and I are in the process of looking at and bidding on homes. I know many of you will say to just rent, and believe me, that was my mantra until he got approved. I was intensely looking for a rental that suited us for months. The fact is, I was unable to find anything that we could afford in a safe area. Of course I wish we had moved out long ago, and I am still waiting for that perfect rental to pop up - but meanwhile, we are able to afford a mortgage in a much better area (and now that we have the funds for a down payment thanks to our tax refunds). If we've had to go through all this, we at the very least owe it to ourselves to find a new home that we can thrive and make happy memories in. And before you ask, yes, we have considered everything regarding the buying process and monthly payments and home ownership in general. Advice is welcome on that topic, however lectures are not. We've been living for the past 6 months in a cat-shit-infested, 700 square foot, middle of nowhere, dirty house. We are ready for a place we will be happy living in.
Mother demands that we don't buy a house but rather rent because it's not fair to her that we make a down payment and own a home, when she (feels like she) is footing the bill for everything (I can not stress enough how untrue this is, as well as how much she fights for us to live with her). She wants to buy a home but she simply can't because all these years, she's been renting in order to avoid a down payment and "give the kids a nice place to live." Let's analyze this: she did not support us until I was 16 years old. After the divorce until 16, we lived either with her parents or her boyfriends. At 16, she moved us out of my high school zone into literally the ghetto downtown. ??????? And then I moved out at 18, totally independent, and my older brother stayed until med school a couple years later.
So she springs it on us that she's suddenly considering buying a home because her landlord wants to move back in anyway. She says she can only afford a very inexpensive house because now she needs to pay it off in 15 years so that it's paid by the time she retires. Great idea. So please, please someone tell me why she dragged LO and I out to the middle of nowhere to go look with her at a $288,000 house? She had seen it before and absolutely loved it. It's perfect: near the lake, BIG ENOUGH FOR ALL THE KIDS, clean enough for LO to crawl around, a great deal in a great area, swim and tennis, ALL THE THINGS. She wanted me to see it for my approval and so that I could see the area that we would live in. Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention that she has been vehemently denying that we will absolutely NOT be moving anywhere with her. She qualified for the home loan and is in the process of negotiating for this house. She made LO and I go with her to look at a beautiful home in a beautiful neighborhood, when she's telling us that she needs $900 rent to get by? Meanwhile, we are driving all around the city desparately searching for and trying to snatch up a DECENT place to live? I was so hurt. This was just today and I have finally passed the point of anger - I am absolutely hurt and sad and I don't even know how to describe it. I am just realizing the kind of person I am dealing with. I thought all these years that she had so much love for us kids that it simply overwhelmed her and drove her behavior. Now I have to ask myself if this woman is even sane or if there ever has been any genuine love here, or if everything is an attempt to "fill her narcissistic supply tank".
I feel so guilty. I'm sure there are some members on here who can relate to this guilt and have success stories as to how to work through it. I feel so sad for this woman. I desparately want a relationship between her and my daughter, but it is ONLY for my mother's sake. And that is wrong, right? I would never allow LO to be alone around her and it would be ELC. Will this plan work in the long run? I cannot bear the thought of completely cutting her off. But I truly feel like I am going to have been traumatized by this whole experience and will need serious therapy to work through it all.
I know, I know. BH and CO. But isn't there a way to ease my guilt and anxirty by enforcing a limited, boundary-full relationship with rules and regulations? Also, on a side note, do I try and discourage her from buying this home and making a HUGE mistake, or do I continue to appease her and agree with everything in order to maintain peace?
Am I the Daughter of a Narcissistic Mother, and will my own daughter be asking herself the same thing in 20 years?
